Thursday, July 30, 2009

Obama's Indonesian Citizenship: The Question is Back

Andrew McCarthy in his opinion raises the question on Obama's citizenship.

Under Indonesian law, adoption before the age of six by an Indonesian male qualified a child for citizenship. According to Dreams from My Father, Obama was four when he met Lolo Soetoro; his mother married Soetoro shortly thereafter; and Obama was already registered for school when he and his mother relocated to Jakarta, where Soetoro was an oil-company executive and liaison to the Suharto government. That was in 1966, when Obama was five. Obama attended Indonesian elementary schools, which, in Suharto’s police state, were generally reserved for citizens (and students were required to carry identity cards that matched student registration information). The records of the Catholic school Obama/Soetoro attended for three years identify him as a citizen of Indonesia. Thus Obama probably obtained Indonesian citizenship through his adoption by Soetoro in Hawaii. That inference is bolstered by the 1980 divorce submission of Ann Dunham and Lolo Soetoro, filed in Hawaii state court. It said “the parties” (Ann and Lolo) had a child (name not given) who was no longer a minor (Obama was 19 at the time). If Soetoro had not adopted Obama, there would have been no basis for the couple to refer to Obama as their child — he’d have been only Ann Dunham’s child.


The question of where Obama was born has had many different takes, but one thing is consistent and that is what was stated above by McCarthy. Obama's childhood in Indonesia.

That was an issue that has been looked at here.

Some key points..

Indonesian regulations recognize neither apatride nor bipatride citizenship.In an attempt to prevent dual citizenship, the draft revision includes new regulations.It states that an infant whose father is a foreign citizen and mother is an Indonesian can obtain Indonesian citizenship if it is the wish of their parents.

This citizenship, however, must not cause dual citizenship.A child born overseas to an Indonesian couple can be an Indonesian citizen at the request of their parents. A request for citizenship must be submitted to the Indonesian embassy no later than three months after the child's birth, the draft revision says.

A foreign child aged below 21 and unmarried, who is adopted by an Indonesian, will be eligible for Indonesian citizenship if the process does not cause dual citizenship. Foreigners who contribute to Indonesia -- or for a specific reason -- can be granted Indonesian citizenship by the President with the consent of the House of Representatives.

Indonesian citizens can lose their nationality on certain conditions, including if they join the military service of another country, or live overseas for a consecutive
period of five years without declaring their will to remain an Indonesian national.


(...)


In countries that enforce single citizenship, voluntary naturalization in another country will lead to an automatic loss of the original citizenship; the language of the law often refers to such cases as "giving up one's citizenship" or (implicit) renunciation of citizenship.


(...)

If his mother gave up her US Citizenship, and if he was Adopted by her Second Husband, and if Indonesia does not Recognize the Concept of Dual Nationality, Senator Obama is an Indonesian.

In neither case does his Place of Birth or his mothers Nationality have any legal Consequence whatsoever because the USA accepts the existence of Dual Nationality only if the other country does.

Hague Conventions are applied by the USA and this has been US Law since before 1930 (see:Memorandum on Nationality, including Statelessness: Document A/CN.4/67, Prepared by Ivan S Kerno, International Law Commission, United Nations General Assembly, 6th April 1953.)

To be continued......................................................


In other words, Obama had to become an Indoneasian citizen to live in Indoneasia and attend the Indonesian schools.

The question should have been, how did this affect Obama's citizenship as an adult.

10 comments:

Captain Steve said...

Good points. This only raises more questions to the overload of questions regarding Obama's past and "natural-born" eligibility to be POTUS.

To all the people that say Obama is legitimate, I would like to know if your decision was based on faith or facts? If it’s faith, I’m not persuaded. If it’s based on facts, show them to the world so we can evaluate them for ourselves!

If Obama has a long-form, why doesn’t he show it? If he doesn’t have one, why not? People that hide things, usually have something to hide. He works for us. We have a right to know! We have a right to demand it!!!!!!!!!!!! We need to send a message to Obama and to EVERY OTHER POTENTIAL VIOLATOR OF OUR RULE OF LAW!!!!!!!!!!!

OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US THE LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!!

Anonymous said...

His mother was an underage whore, the sperm doner was maybe a Kenyan, we arn’t really sure who the doner was.

Barry is at best a naturalized citizen (if born in Hawaii) but most likely an illegal allien (if born in Kenya)

Congrats America we have our first son of a whore non-natural citizen as a usurper.

Yes we can!

Anonymous said...

more importantly what passport was he using to exit the country, and was it the same to reenter the country. Was he admitted as a US citizen to college or an international student? If he has indonesian citizenship and was admitted as a US Citizen then is he guilty of using his "claimed" US citizenship as a way of getting financial aide he was not entitled to? Isn't that a crime?

Joe Sixpack said...

The Indonesian citizenship issue seems the most interesting (as well as the dual UK/US citizenship at birth). It is unfortunate this was not reviewed BEFORE Obama took office. It seems like this is being reignited to threaten Obama on health care.

I tried to warn about this on my site.

Know1 said...

No further action need be taken to "end the discussion" or to "end the questions". The discussion is closed by order of the US Supreme Court, whose Chief Justice administered the Oath of Office of President of the United States, and by order of the Senate of the United States whom confirmed the electoral college voting results.

The discussion is OVER.

Anyone applying for a passport would get a certificate from their state of birth similar to that issued to Barack Obama and the same as publicly circulated and displayed. The Constitution does not require special forms of birth certificates to appease racist subversives undermining the presidency using falsified Kenya documentations and claims.

When it comes down to who do you trust, the STATE of HAWAII is trusted over unknown Kenyan alleged witnesses. STANLEY ANN Obama, Barack's mother, was unable to travel to Kenya for medical reasons, and an infant returning with her would not be admitted into the US for medical reason -- it didn't happen and was medically impossible due to Yellow Fever Virus Vaccination medical requirements.

Pregnant women were not vaccinated and infants under 1-year-old were not vaccinated. It didn't happen.

Stanley Ann was in classes at University of Hawaii before the birth -- there was no prolonged absence from classes. Barack Obama Senior was conspicuous as the FIRST-EVER BLACK STUDENT at University of Hawaii, and was not absent from classes before or after the birth.

The only conspiracy is the criminal fraud conspiracy falsifying documentation purporting that there are witnesses in Kenya who allegedly attended the alleged Kenyan birth. These felony fraudsters need to be punished with severe prison sentences, including those aiding and abetting after the fact, because they have undermined military good order and have already caused at least one officer to refuse orders of assignment caused by the fraud crime. This is not harmless political tug-of-war but actual treason. Traitors must be punished for undermining America's security during a time of war.

Georgetown said...

Found this comment in Indiana about from an Obam supporter (Indiana Mom):

"live birth certificate or not =he's a citizen. and his mother DID live here 5 years prior -they weren't in Kenya that long -her citizenship was always United States -just because she was visiting kenya does not mean she didn't live in the united States - They granted the certificate based on that -she can't help where she had the baby -and they don't take U.S. citizenship away from the baby because mom was somewhere else when she had him -it was done within the given period of time you have to file for the birth certificate in those cases where the mom happens to give birth outside her own country -it's based on mom -not dad -mom gives birth - "

The statements reflect and answer the points you made.
1. Ann visited/lived in Kenya. More than likely was vaccinated before departing to Africa. She actually lived there, more or less 1 year.
Certainly time enough for BO jr.to have a Yellow Fever Vaccination prior to boarding the ship or plane
departing to the US.
2.Upon Ann's return to the US, registered her son's birth with the Department of State in Hawaii
through some sort of legal challenge as she was "granted" a Birth certification based on the fact that the 'birth happend' in another country-by mistake.

The media should stop attempting to defend and speak for Obam and let him defend and speak for himself to the people who eform lected him. Why not hold the Long
Form BC show it to everyone and say "I'm an Natural Born Citizen
of the US born in Hawaii and I am Proud" ..... Nope all he has ever said "my father was from Kenya".
He should prove his birth place.
Prove it to the People.

Kenya and the African Continent is proud of him and calls him son of the soil continent of his birth...Put them all in jail?

Anonymous said...

Hawaii authenticated Obama was born on US soil. That is a fact, even though this article doesn't imply that. You're saying this may not matter? The 14th amendment says different. So it's a given that Obama was born with US citizenship.

You cannot lose your citizenship because of what Indonesian law says. You cannot even renounce your citizenship until you're 18. The only way Obama could have lost his US citizenship is if the Indonesian Army was hostile to the US and they let Obama join at age 5.

Also the only Hague treaties ratified by the Senate have to do with rules of war, not nationality.

Tom said...

On where he was born is irrelevent to the Indonesian issue. In fact on one of the school documents Hawaii is listed as place of birth.

Contrary to your opinion on the matter of losing citizenship.

The U.S. would relenquish any citizenship title held by the child because it would disenfranchise the the child from the legal parents and disenfranchise the child from the country it would be in.

As pointed out, Idonesia at the time did not recognize dual citizenships.

A pointed out Obama would not be able to go to school there if the U.S. still held title to the child's citizenship.

That is why the Hague convention applies.

It's plain as day. No dual citizenship period. The child is no longer a citizen of the U.S.

How that would play out later as an adult is the question.

Your comments don't correctly answer that question.

Anonymous said...

obama is not the best of people, but it's either him or mcain. the lesser or 2 evils.

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