http://old.thejakartapost.com/weekender/6reporter.asp
"...Israella Darmawan is every inch a teacher, from her shiny cap of black hair to her sensible shoes. In an office at the Fransiskus Assisi School, she shows me an old register with an entry for Barry Soetoro, as Barack Obama was know then. Bu Is taught Obama in the first grade. She admits she doesn't remember all her students well, but Barry ... well, he stood out. "
Rumor has it, Barack Obama was adopted by his step-father Lolo Soetoro. Rumor also has it that Barack may have become an Indonesian citizen through the adoption of his step-father who was also Indonesian.
Here is an interesting fact about Indonesian citizenship:
Saturday, June 26, 2004 Kurniawan Hari, Jakarta
American researcher and analyst on good governance Sidney Jones in May sent
an e-mail to her Indonesian colleague senior journalist Goenawan Mohamad that if
U.S. President George W. Bush were to be reelected in November, she would become
an Indonesian citizen.
She is, however, unlikely to keep her word, given that she was deported
from the country.Indonesian law allows foreigners to apply for citizenship with
some conditions, including the length of stay of the applicant in the
country.
The existing citizenship Law No. 62/1958 states that foreigners can apply
for Indonesian citizenship if they have been living in the country for a
consecutive period of at least five years, or 10 years not consecutively.
Legislators, however, recently submitted a draft revision of the
citizenship law. The draft, among other things, increases the mandatory length
of stay to 15 years.Under the existing law, Jones may be eligible for
citizenship.
Article 8 of the draft revision says that foreigners must have been living
in Indonesia for a consecutive term of at least 15 years, or 20 years not
consecutively, before they can apply for citizenship.
Besides which, the foreigner must speak Bahasa Indonesia fluently and have
sufficient knowledge of Indonesia's Constitution and history.The foreigner must
not have committed any crime that is punishable with a minimum of one year in
prison in Indonesia. Most importantly, they must have a permanent job and
income.
The draft revision also suggests that the application be submitted to the
President via the justice minister, while the existing citizenship law says it
is enough to submit the application to the minister via a district court.The
President must decide whether to approve the application within three months
after the request is made.
The existing citizenship law adopts universal principles: First, the state
has the ultimate right to determine who can be granted citizenship, and who will
lose it; second, the state cannot interfere with the citizenship regulations of
other countries; and third, citizenship must be granted based on certain
criteria.
In addition, the law also adopts two other principles from which
citizenship is determined. The first principle, ius sanguinis (law of the
blood), states that a person's citizenship, regardless of where they were born,
is dependent upon the citizenship of their parents. The second principle, ius
soli (law of the soil), determines citizenship on a person's birthplace.The
citizenship law is designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual
citizenship).
Indonesian regulations recognize neither apatride nor bipatride
citizenship.In an attempt to prevent dual citizenship, the draft revision
includes new regulations.It states that an infant whose father is a foreign
citizen and mother is an Indonesian can obtain Indonesian citizenship if it is
the wish of their parents.
This citizenship, however, must not cause dual citizenship.A child born
overseas to an Indonesian couple can be an Indonesian citizen at the request of
their parents. A request for citizenship must be submitted to the Indonesian
embassy no later than three months after the child's birth, the draft revision
says.
A foreign child aged below 21 and unmarried, who is adopted by an
Indonesian, will be eligible for Indonesian citizenship if the process does not
cause dual citizenship. Foreigners who contribute to Indonesia -- or for a
specific reason -- can be granted Indonesian citizenship by the
President with the consent of the House of Representatives.Indonesian
citizens can lose their nationality on certain conditions, including if they
join the military service of another country, or live overseas for a consecutive
period of five years without declaring their will to remain an Indonesian
national.
An Indonesian woman can lose her citizenship if she marries a foreigner
whose country applies a law that obliges a woman to follow the citizenship of
her husband.
Indonesian citizenship is given to:
1. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;
2. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman --
the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
3. A child born of the marriage of a foreign man and Indonesian woman, both
of whom request Indonesian citizenship for their child -- the status of which
does not cause dual citizenship;
4. A child born to an unmarried Indonesian woman, the status of which does
not cause dual citizenship;
5. A child born in Indonesian territory that is not provided with
citizenship by his or her parents;
6. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents are unknown;
7. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents have no
citizenship.
Source: Draft revision of citizenship law No. 62/1958
Is it possible that Barack Obama lost his U.S. citizenship through the adoption done by his step-father? There is the question on if he had to be an Indonesian citizen if he attended the schools in Indonesia and there is the question on why the name change?
What is said about denaturalization:
"...Denaturalization is the reverse of naturalization, when a state
deprives one of its citizens of his or her citizenship.
From the point of view of the individual, denaturalization means "revocation" or
"loss" of citizenship.
Denaturalization can be based on various legal justifications. The most
severe form is the "stripping of citizenship" when denaturalization takes place
as a penalty for actions considered criminal by the state, often only indirectly
related to nationality, for instance for having served in a foreign military.
In countries that enforce single
citizenship, voluntary naturalization in another country will lead to an
automatic loss of the original citizenship; the language of the law often refers
to such cases as "giving up one's citizenship" or (implicit) renunciation of citizenship.
Unlike these two cases, which affect also native-born
citizens, naturalized
citizens can lose their citizenship by an annulment of
naturalization, also known as "administrative denaturalization" where the
original act of naturalization is found to be invalid, for instance due to an
administrative error or if it had been based on fraud (including bribery).
In the US, the Bancroft
Treaties in the 19th century regulated legislation concerning
denaturalization."
Question are now being asked about the Birth Certificate that Obama has displayed on his website and if it is a possible deflection that Barack may have been adopted and lost his naturalized citizenship through the adoption.
An interesting post on AOL's message board raises an interesting scenario:
http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=560797&articleId=729220&func=6&channel=News+AOL+Managed&filterRead=false&filterHidden=true&filterUnhidden=false
Many people think that if you are born on American Soil you must be an
American Citizen, and in theory that is true.
However, if one of your parents is not an American Citizen, usually
your father, and if that parent Registers you as a National of their country and
if that country does not recognize the concept of Dual Citizenship/Nationality
you are not an American unless you become Naturalized.The Nationality of your American Parent and your place of Birth are not relevant, the Law of the other Country takes precedence under The Master Nationality Rule of Article 4 of the Hague Convention of 1930.~~~~~~
If Kenya does not recognize Dual Nationality, Senator Obama is a Kenyan
and has been since he was two years old. Prior to that he would have been a
British Subject.
If his mother gave up her US Citizenship, and if he was Adopted by her
Second Husband, and if Indonesia does not Recognize the Concept of Dual
Nationality, Senator Obama is an Indonesian.In neither case does his Place of Birth or his mothers Nationality have any legal Consequence whatsoever because the USA accepts the existence of Dual Nationality only if the other country does.
Hague Conventions are applied by the USA and this has been US Law since
before 1930 (see:Memorandum on Nationality, including Statelessness: Document
A/CN.4/67, Prepared by Ivan S Kerno, International Law Commission, United
Nations General Assembly, 6th April 1953.)
To be continued......................................................
Posts
8 comments:
Kenya, being a former British colony, would almost certainly allowed duel citizenship.
Obama is probably a citizenship of Kenya, and McCain could very well be a dual citizen of Panama.
the difference is that McCain was born to new US citizens, and panama was a territory under US governance. Also law passed that covers this. Military family of US...McCain has nothing to prove. He is in every way a citizen and natural born of US.
On the other hand, Obama has not shown anything to prove why he was using another name, went to school that only allowed Indonesian citizenship students. More but tired
Obama has provided a document authenticated by Hawaii that definitively proves he was born on US soil. That alone makes him a citizen at birth. You cannot lose your citizenship just because Indonesian law says you do. It may not even be possible to lose your US citizenship until you're 18, unless a foreign army hostile to the US allows you to join at age 12.
Even if you can show proof that the Hague Convention in 1930 was ratified by the senate, do you even realize what Article 4 of that convention says? It says "A State may not afford diplomatic protection to one of its nationals against a State whose nationality such person also possesses". The only Hague conventions I could find ratified by the senate has to do with rules of war. Furthermore there is nothing called "The Master Nationality Rule", and to suggest such rules override the 14th amendment is just loony.
You say: "Rumor has it, Barack Obama was adopted by his step-father Lolo Soetoro. Rumor also has it that Barack may have become an Indonesian citizen through the adoption of his step-father who was also Indonesian."
Why would one give any weight to such a rumor? Who is saying this? How could they know?
Do you know that the US State Department in one of the FOIA cases denied that Obama had ever been adopted? Did you know that Obama's response in of the lawsuits denied that he had ever been adopted? Do you know that the FOIA immigration documents on Lolo Soetoro, were he was pleading hardship trying to stay in the US, never claim that he had adopted Obama?
It strains credibility in the fact of all this evidence, that anyone would entertain the idea that Obama was adopted in Indonesia.
In response to anonymous: Kenya does not allow dual (correct spelling) citizenship for adults. Upon reaching the age of 21, a dual-citizen must declare their allegiance to Kenya (there is a 2 year grace period) or lose their Kenyan citizenship. Therefore, Barack Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship at age 23, and along with it his British Commonwealth Citizenship.
In response to anonymous: Indonesia is not a party to the Hague Convention.
It is nonsense to suggest that everyone must be an Indonesian citizen to attend school in Indonesia. Just think about the impossibility of a huge country like that imposing such a restriction on every foreign family. And further, there is citation or evidence that such a requirement ever existed. It was made up out of thin air.
The AOL comment is total nonsense. The 14th Amendment says that all persons born in the United States under its jurisdiction (meaning subject to its laws) are citizens. There is no exception, and no law of Kenya, Indonesia or anywhere else trumps the US Constitution in the United States.
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